tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post962303933905187925..comments2024-02-29T00:19:36.582-08:00Comments on The Coffee Heretic: Why Third Wave (Pour-over) Coffee Bars Fail.Mark Overlyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14288250998300485325noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-13463971659841145452019-09-09T09:00:08.323-07:002019-09-09T09:00:08.323-07:00Hi Mark, I would like to make my first approach by...Hi Mark, I would like to make my first approach by thanking you for producing such a rich and meaningful coffee discussion. I won't want to establish me as a coffee addict except a coffer lover since my <a href="https://coffeextraction.com" rel="nofollow">Speciality coffee</a> made my day. Anyway, the reason of abandoning pour-over is very rational and thoughtful. And about coffee bars, I think there are some places where some coffee bars are truly super committed to their motto or vision. But as the same time I also would like to stress much one thing that is quality. May be style nowadays has been able to dram much attention but in the long run, quality sings the triumphant song. Again my warm thanks to you for gifting us such a coffee loving analysis and of course for sharing. Samantha12https://www.blogger.com/profile/00203063622809318462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-63195698747447045742018-09-17T00:35:58.166-07:002018-09-17T00:35:58.166-07:00I read your blog it's was wonderful. I appreci...I read your blog it's was wonderful. I appreciate your article keep it up...thanksSocial Espressohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777672956460742733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-91233815730781936002014-04-19T06:46:47.891-07:002014-04-19T06:46:47.891-07:00Love this article. I have a "Third Wave Shop&...Love this article. I have a "Third Wave Shop", except I do everything as a grab and go. Maybe thats my Sbux experience. But it works. Darrin Marionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05744513889031062332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-11591012610844917582013-05-23T20:09:34.520-07:002013-05-23T20:09:34.520-07:00Well, Josh, I'm all for technological innovati...Well, Josh, I'm all for technological innovation if it results in a better tasting coffee. Ian Bernstein, in his book "Coffee Floats, Tea Sinks" asserts that it was just this innovation that drove coffee quality. What I object to is adopting methodologies that are more about theater than providing a superior product. Mark Overlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14288250998300485325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-36555135117189426042013-04-28T11:17:05.426-07:002013-04-28T11:17:05.426-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-16679534907025064682013-04-07T09:40:57.065-07:002013-04-07T09:40:57.065-07:00I would love to see more of your opinions on the o...I would love to see more of your opinions on the other kinds of technological fads Third Wavers utilize.<br /><br />It is difficult to argue against expanding a base of products for sale to the public, provided the public is getting what the public consumes most often. For instance, so what if a bad shop ruins a pour-over, or promotes a lengthy viewing of a siphon filter, provided they satisfy enough customers with other products? I'm not sure if "specialty coffee shops" like Blue Bottle are alienating their customers because of their Japanese-style brewing. Of course, other factors might promote Blue Bottle as a solid contender in the Third Waver camp, but my interest in your ideas on these kinds of marketing tensions remains.<br /><br />Joshua CottlePimp Daddy Juicy Cheekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14142752222806140466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-5577949754512825272012-05-03T13:59:55.461-07:002012-05-03T13:59:55.461-07:00Hi Dan, thanks for reading and commenting. The cof...Hi Dan, thanks for reading and commenting. The coffee would have been under-extracted had the operators poured more aggressively. There was no stirring of grounds since there was never enough water in the filter to stir, they were pouring the water through the grounds, slowing the rate of pour to achieve the time target. While I did not purposely identify the shops in this piece, we visited over 20. Some were roasters, others were independents (the best came from an independent). I went through my gold cup training during its inauguration about a decade or so ago. I think it would be untoward of me to bring my tds kit and refractometer when visiting shops that are not my clients.<br />We considered obtaining both the metal cone and V60 but abandoned the idea based on these experiences. But for fairness sake I will endeavor to bring both into the lab.Mark Overlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14288250998300485325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081143583238727613.post-3210973469118407592012-05-03T10:18:09.397-07:002012-05-03T10:18:09.397-07:00interesting take on the current up spring of hip s...interesting take on the current up spring of hip shops and roasters. this style is ever so typical of business: 'ooooh, that's the coolest new thing, we can make lots of money!'. on the other hand, there are some shops that know how to do what you say cannot be done. as far as your opinion about the V60, if you cannot get a quality cup, with a consistent extraction and tds, you need to learn more about brewing and probably get a refractometer so you can match your palate to actual readable/trackable points. I don't know what roast levels you're using but I have rarely ever seen an over extracted brew from a V60. rather it is highly underextracted with the spent grounds all down the funnel walls instead of flat or slightly convex which indicates a good level of extraction. since working in a coffee shop in '92 I have had maybe 4 acceptable cups of coffee from a commercial brewer. that is not to say that, programmed and utilized correctly, commercial brewers cannot make a good cup of coffee. they are more forgiving than a single serve manual brew but coffee shops still can't get good coffee out of them. furthermore, you say the large hole and fins of the V60 make channeling a large issue. if anything, those two would add to underextraction as water escapes too quickly, not overextraction. the grounds don't sit at the bottom until the end of the brewing cycle, the filter is slightly larger than the Dripper so it fills around the fins and keeps water from channeling down the sides and if you balance the grind with stirring the brew you keep any coffee from settling at the bottom and overextracting.<br />I have been using the V60 for two years solid and get a better cup with that than from any other brewing method I have ever had from anyone, anywhere, ever. I assure you I could make you a cup with the V60 that would be easily better than you could EVER get out of your Fetco. It is your methodology that is keeping you from getting great coffee from the V60, not the V60. the same goes for the metal Kone filter.<br />the biggest problem with coffee shops is that few have anyone (owner, operator or employee) that truly know the science of brewing, let alone actually calculate what extraction/tds they are trying to achieve AND what extraction/tds they actually achieve.<br />sincerely,<br />Dan Kennedy<br />SCAA Certified Brewing TechniciantheCoffeeScientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14787157530928400619noreply@blogger.com